Residents Furious Alan Payne October 2015
Box Brook below Rudloe (photo courtesy Rose Ledbury)
Local Residents' Views
We asked for your views about the proposal to move Rudloe, Wadswick and Chapel Plaister from Box to Corsham and we have been innundated with comments. Here are some of the more instructive (polite) comments.
The overwhelming sentiment was bitterly opposed to any change in the historic boundaries. Most people seemed to blame Wiltshire County Council (Who do they think they are?); most people deplored the hostility Wiltshire County Council have caused between neighbours (They're on expenses and happy to waste our time and money). The common view was that this had been pre-decided by councillors and was contrary to the public interest (If they think we will just lie down and accept, then they need to think again).
It's not too late to give your views. Please come to the public meeting at 7pm 14 October at Springfield Campus, Beechfield Road or write to us and we will pass on your comments. And please read the response by Box Parish Council attached.
We asked for your views about the proposal to move Rudloe, Wadswick and Chapel Plaister from Box to Corsham and we have been innundated with comments. Here are some of the more instructive (polite) comments.
The overwhelming sentiment was bitterly opposed to any change in the historic boundaries. Most people seemed to blame Wiltshire County Council (Who do they think they are?); most people deplored the hostility Wiltshire County Council have caused between neighbours (They're on expenses and happy to waste our time and money). The common view was that this had been pre-decided by councillors and was contrary to the public interest (If they think we will just lie down and accept, then they need to think again).
It's not too late to give your views. Please come to the public meeting at 7pm 14 October at Springfield Campus, Beechfield Road or write to us and we will pass on your comments. And please read the response by Box Parish Council attached.
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Tudor Jones wrote
Not wishing to sound flippant but as a 'Rudlonian' I have never been so 'wanted' in my life; Box to retain us and Corsham to abduct us! I would like to know: WHO? is the individual who thought up this grab and steal fiasco? ALL 'ideas' start with one person and only when initially outlined/offered/recommended/urged etc does the mass body of the individual's cohorts froth at the mouth with excitement and support! |
No-notion, Rudloe, in 1906 (courtesy Rose Ledbury)
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From the outset WHY? were residents of the area in question not advised of the grabbing plan? That said, WHY? not ALL Box Parishioners; why? not, say, a referendum? (Doubtless because the result be obvious!)
Why? is a Box Parish issue being held in public in CORSHAM? Initially it was planned/booked for the Selwyn Hall in Box but postponed - due to the most lame of excuses ever heard - the pending General Election! (Let Box parishioners use their cars, spend on taxis/coach/bus etc or stay at home because Corsham is too far to go to unlike the nearby Selwyn Hall known to us all.)
Is there a compensation clause to this idea IF, God forbid, it is approved? Revenue lost by Box will be revenue gained/stolen by Corsham. And part of the gained/stolen revenue will be the higher charge for my Band D (and others') Council Tax Bill.
The notion that residents of the 'area being stolen' tend to shop etc in Corsham is poppycock! I (and many others I am sure) NEVER EVER shop in Corsham - the bank is the only place I visit IF I am not already in Chippenham! Corsham is alien to many of us and we do not desire, want, need etc this 'Commrade Putin/Ukraine' onslaught.
One can go on and on but the message is clear; the whole concept is brutal and foolish and there has been total disregard towards residents of the area being stolen/grabbed. The individual who initially thought up this theft - and those who agreed with him/her - must realise they are not stealing/grabbing a plot of land/fields etc BUT an area where PEOPLE live and whose rights and voice have not only been totally ignored but never entered the equation of this grab and steal folly!
Tudor has lived in Rudloe for some 20 years and has been an active participant on many Box Parish clubs and institutions including Chairman of Box Selwyn Hall Management Committee
Why? is a Box Parish issue being held in public in CORSHAM? Initially it was planned/booked for the Selwyn Hall in Box but postponed - due to the most lame of excuses ever heard - the pending General Election! (Let Box parishioners use their cars, spend on taxis/coach/bus etc or stay at home because Corsham is too far to go to unlike the nearby Selwyn Hall known to us all.)
Is there a compensation clause to this idea IF, God forbid, it is approved? Revenue lost by Box will be revenue gained/stolen by Corsham. And part of the gained/stolen revenue will be the higher charge for my Band D (and others') Council Tax Bill.
The notion that residents of the 'area being stolen' tend to shop etc in Corsham is poppycock! I (and many others I am sure) NEVER EVER shop in Corsham - the bank is the only place I visit IF I am not already in Chippenham! Corsham is alien to many of us and we do not desire, want, need etc this 'Commrade Putin/Ukraine' onslaught.
One can go on and on but the message is clear; the whole concept is brutal and foolish and there has been total disregard towards residents of the area being stolen/grabbed. The individual who initially thought up this theft - and those who agreed with him/her - must realise they are not stealing/grabbing a plot of land/fields etc BUT an area where PEOPLE live and whose rights and voice have not only been totally ignored but never entered the equation of this grab and steal folly!
Tudor has lived in Rudloe for some 20 years and has been an active participant on many Box Parish clubs and institutions including Chairman of Box Selwyn Hall Management Committee
Philip Rayner wrote
The eastern Box Parish boundary clearly shown in the 1840 Tithe Apportionment map (courtesy Wilts History Centre)
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It is obviously important that as many people as possible should attend the forthcoming meeting.
I am not sure what the criteria is that will be the basis of the decision on the boundary but assume that it is partly economic, partly social and only to a limited extent historical I am afraid. I think your article is a good rallying cry and points to past links of the various hamlets with Box but at the meeting we attended in Selwyn Hall there were a lot of people from the various hamlets, particularly Rudloe who talked of seeing themselves and their families as Box residents, attending Box School, Box Surgery etc. and I think it is these more contemporary links that will carry more weight; so all those people need to express their feeling of identity with Box. |
Your article and readers responses on the website would one means of doing that, writing to the Boundary Commission would be another and attending the meeting will be another.
There is a strong economic argument for maintaining the status quo as if the boundary changes then Box Parish will be severely financially weakened and in effect Corsham Parish will be enriched at the cost of services to the people of Box Parish. This is an argument that I think the Parish Council will strongly argue.
There is an argument to be made on the basis of what (if anything) can Corsham do for the hamlets of Rudloe, Wadswick & Chapel Plaister. Will the new residents have increased Council Tax bills? Will they get improved services as a result of the change? What services will they lose that are currently supplied by Box Parish i.e. street cleaning? Again i think that Box Parish Council will highlight these.I don’t think Corsham Town Council has a strong case but these are uncertain times!
Philip lived in Mills Platt, the hamlet next to Corsham, for about ten years and was an active participant on Box Parish Council until recently.
There is a strong economic argument for maintaining the status quo as if the boundary changes then Box Parish will be severely financially weakened and in effect Corsham Parish will be enriched at the cost of services to the people of Box Parish. This is an argument that I think the Parish Council will strongly argue.
There is an argument to be made on the basis of what (if anything) can Corsham do for the hamlets of Rudloe, Wadswick & Chapel Plaister. Will the new residents have increased Council Tax bills? Will they get improved services as a result of the change? What services will they lose that are currently supplied by Box Parish i.e. street cleaning? Again i think that Box Parish Council will highlight these.I don’t think Corsham Town Council has a strong case but these are uncertain times!
Philip lived in Mills Platt, the hamlet next to Corsham, for about ten years and was an active participant on Box Parish Council until recently.
Ainslie Goulstone wrote
On the boundary debate I not sure how much weight my opinion will carry, as I live in Somerset, a different county...
However, there is a PRECEDENT to note ! I'm not sure how many years ago ( maybe thirty) there was a move afoot in Shockerwick to move the hamlet into Wiltshire as part of Box, Box being willing to receive the extension. Some residents were upset about the council tax difference between Bath and Wiltshire, some felt more part of Box than the slightly distant Bathford
(historically now cut off by the railway ); other residents opposed the move, worried about the value a BA1 post code gave their property.... The debate caused some rift...
On the boundary debate I not sure how much weight my opinion will carry, as I live in Somerset, a different county...
However, there is a PRECEDENT to note ! I'm not sure how many years ago ( maybe thirty) there was a move afoot in Shockerwick to move the hamlet into Wiltshire as part of Box, Box being willing to receive the extension. Some residents were upset about the council tax difference between Bath and Wiltshire, some felt more part of Box than the slightly distant Bathford
(historically now cut off by the railway ); other residents opposed the move, worried about the value a BA1 post code gave their property.... The debate caused some rift...
In the end the move was opposed on the grounds of HISTORY: the ancient boundary of 957, the gift of our land and hamlet to the monks of (Bath) Ford of the same date, all the centuries of history tied up with being where we were........
Probably no help at all as the cases are different, still history was the deciding factor...
Ainslie lives in Lower Shockerwick, Bathford, but she and her husband, David, have always been associated with Box, Box Church and Box Revels.
Probably no help at all as the cases are different, still history was the deciding factor...
Ainslie lives in Lower Shockerwick, Bathford, but she and her husband, David, have always been associated with Box, Box Church and Box Revels.
Jane Browning wrote
I am totally against the proposal to re-draw the boundary. Does history count for nothing? I understand it is due to Chippenham wanting to re-draw their boundary to include parts of Corsham Parish due to Wiltshire Council identifying (in the Core Strategy) a certain amount of land for housing and employment needs for Chippenham, which Chippenham cannot meet within their current boundaries. Corsham Town Council has, in effect, agreed this without consulting its parishioners. The whole process has been rather "under the radar". I think there are very few people in Corsham who know of this review. Certainly I know of no proposal to have a similar meeting for the proposed new boundaries for the parish of Corsham.
So it is all due to the WC's Core Strategy that we are in this position. WC usually get their way - consultation is purely that; a way to put a tick in the box to say they have consulted. They do not have to follow the views of those consulted.
Although, again, they do not have to take account of such a vehicle, I wonder if, if WC still do not listen, Box Parish could call for a referendum. Indeed, if the proposals were more widely known in Corsham, I believe there would be sufficient people in Corsham to demand such a vote as well.
Jane lives in Corsham and has innumerable family ties with Box. She is a committee member of Box NATS and Box People and Places as well as several similar Corsham Societies.
I am totally against the proposal to re-draw the boundary. Does history count for nothing? I understand it is due to Chippenham wanting to re-draw their boundary to include parts of Corsham Parish due to Wiltshire Council identifying (in the Core Strategy) a certain amount of land for housing and employment needs for Chippenham, which Chippenham cannot meet within their current boundaries. Corsham Town Council has, in effect, agreed this without consulting its parishioners. The whole process has been rather "under the radar". I think there are very few people in Corsham who know of this review. Certainly I know of no proposal to have a similar meeting for the proposed new boundaries for the parish of Corsham.
So it is all due to the WC's Core Strategy that we are in this position. WC usually get their way - consultation is purely that; a way to put a tick in the box to say they have consulted. They do not have to follow the views of those consulted.
Although, again, they do not have to take account of such a vehicle, I wonder if, if WC still do not listen, Box Parish could call for a referendum. Indeed, if the proposals were more widely known in Corsham, I believe there would be sufficient people in Corsham to demand such a vote as well.
Jane lives in Corsham and has innumerable family ties with Box. She is a committee member of Box NATS and Box People and Places as well as several similar Corsham Societies.
Jenny Eaton wrote
Both Roger and I are totally opposed to transferring Rudloe etc to Corsham. It will significantly effect the financial status of Box. More importantly, I know that people in Rudloe, Wadswick & Chapel Plaister feel they are part of Box. They are part of the parish of Box and very involved with St Thomas a Becket.
We hope to be at the meeting at the Springfield centre.
Jenny and Roger Eaton have lived in Box for decades taking an active part in the Box Community since the 1970s.
Both Roger and I are totally opposed to transferring Rudloe etc to Corsham. It will significantly effect the financial status of Box. More importantly, I know that people in Rudloe, Wadswick & Chapel Plaister feel they are part of Box. They are part of the parish of Box and very involved with St Thomas a Becket.
We hope to be at the meeting at the Springfield centre.
Jenny and Roger Eaton have lived in Box for decades taking an active part in the Box Community since the 1970s.
David Ibberson wrote
I can see no logical reason why Corsham seeks to extend its boundaries or indeed any advantages to the residents of Wadswick or Rudloe. My suspicions are that there could be an hidden agenda to do with jobs, housing and grants.
However, my real objections are that you object to actions that sweep away the past.
We will try and get there health permitting.
David lives in Corsham and had previously run Box Scouts and Box Jubilee Centre as well as writing numerous historical articles and books about Box.
I can see no logical reason why Corsham seeks to extend its boundaries or indeed any advantages to the residents of Wadswick or Rudloe. My suspicions are that there could be an hidden agenda to do with jobs, housing and grants.
However, my real objections are that you object to actions that sweep away the past.
We will try and get there health permitting.
David lives in Corsham and had previously run Box Scouts and Box Jubilee Centre as well as writing numerous historical articles and books about Box.
Travellers frequently used Wadswick Common in the 1980s (courtesy Carol Payne)
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Margaret Wakefield wrote
I've read your comments about the proposed changes to the parish boundary......and agree with your protest for all sorts of reasons. I don't like the sort of tinkering that happens with monotonous regularity with the old, established boundaries, which can often be reversed or further tinkered with a few years down the line, almost at the whim of the latest body in control. I certainly appreciate all the historic connections that could be broken. But it also seems that Box would be the poorer in population and housing with all the social and economic ramifications that the boundary shift would bring. I AM curious to know what the feelings of the residents of the parts of the parish that would be affected are about it all. |
Margaret moved to Box at the age of three and after a spell away has moved back to the village.
Her ancestors are the Lambert and Richards families who managed the stone quarry wharves for many years.
Her ancestors are the Lambert and Richards families who managed the stone quarry wharves for many years.
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Martin and Elizabeth Devon wrote
The following may help:-
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The Chapel (pictured above courtesy Box Parish Council) was substantially restored in 1893 by Rev Spooner of Box after it had fallen into substantial disrepair for centuries and had been used for storage and as a residential property.
Martin & Elizabeth Devon are two of the most respected people in Box because of their archaeological work on the Box Roman Villa, restoration of Box Church and the amount of community events that they support.
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Box Cemetery, the resting place of many Rudloe, Wadswick & Chapel Plaister residents (courtesy Box Parish Council).
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Les Dancey wrote
I get hot under the collar when I think about how things are. The world just seems to be getting more corrupt, including here in the UK. The problem is that people like me are too lazy to do anything about it. I hope these changes don't go through. I like to think of everything going on as I left it more than fifty years ago. I have no right to feel that way but it an anchor in my life that I treasure. |
I am amazed that there should be any consideration for boundary changes between Corsham and Box. The very thought smells of skullduggery to me. They, no doubt have plans already in place as to what they want to do with the land as soon as they get their grubby little fingers on it, and by then the residents of Box will be powerless to do anything about it. Strikes me of those awful western films that John Wayne was always fighting for justice in.
With all the underground workings it is a sensitive area and, to my mind, it is such an interesting area, it should be turned into a National park. Everywhere local government are looking to where they can make a fast buck. Let them look to themselves! Ministers are saying that they get very little pay for running the country but, when you look at their overall cost with functions and exhorbitant expense claims it trebles their cost to us, money they don't pay tax on. OK, so I digress but it's all part of the big con.
This is another call to the trenches for the Box people. It will be irreversible and no amount of wailing after the event will have any effect on the outcome. Though I have been away from the village a long time, it is always in my mind and will always be home to me. Have you looked into whether a petition might be a step in the right direction? They seem to have worked for some people.
Les was born in the Market Place, Box, and now lives in Christchurch. His memories of Box are undiminished with time and he is a great supporter of the village, often coming to local functions.
With all the underground workings it is a sensitive area and, to my mind, it is such an interesting area, it should be turned into a National park. Everywhere local government are looking to where they can make a fast buck. Let them look to themselves! Ministers are saying that they get very little pay for running the country but, when you look at their overall cost with functions and exhorbitant expense claims it trebles their cost to us, money they don't pay tax on. OK, so I digress but it's all part of the big con.
This is another call to the trenches for the Box people. It will be irreversible and no amount of wailing after the event will have any effect on the outcome. Though I have been away from the village a long time, it is always in my mind and will always be home to me. Have you looked into whether a petition might be a step in the right direction? They seem to have worked for some people.
Les was born in the Market Place, Box, and now lives in Christchurch. His memories of Box are undiminished with time and he is a great supporter of the village, often coming to local functions.
Box Parish Council Response to Proposal 1
Box Parish Council have replied to all of the points raised by Corsham and Wiltshire in their Response to Boundary Proposal. But at the end of the day the councils are public servants and it is your views that matter most.
Box Parish Council have replied to all of the points raised by Corsham and Wiltshire in their Response to Boundary Proposal. But at the end of the day the councils are public servants and it is your views that matter most.
Robert Alderman wrote
Dear Mr Watling,
My wife and I have been residents of Ashley for 34 years. We have read all the literature on the suggested boundary changes of Rudloe etc and can see absolutely no reason to support what appears to be a really cynical land grab on the part of a handful of Corsham people who have in any case totally failed to make a case. We shall be attending the 14 October meeting and will be voicing our total opposition to the proposals.
Bob and Sheila Alderman are important members of the Box Community. Bob has served for a number of years as chairman of Julian House, Bath, and was formerly headmaster of Hardenhuish School, Chippenham.
Dear Mr Watling,
My wife and I have been residents of Ashley for 34 years. We have read all the literature on the suggested boundary changes of Rudloe etc and can see absolutely no reason to support what appears to be a really cynical land grab on the part of a handful of Corsham people who have in any case totally failed to make a case. We shall be attending the 14 October meeting and will be voicing our total opposition to the proposals.
Bob and Sheila Alderman are important members of the Box Community. Bob has served for a number of years as chairman of Julian House, Bath, and was formerly headmaster of Hardenhuish School, Chippenham.
Jane Browning Update - Alternative Proposal Issued by Corsham
There has been a development today (10 October 2015) which has left some parishioners feeling totally bemused, uncomprehending, let down and wondering what the thought process is.
The Rudloe Scene website has a copy of the latest communication from Corsham Town Council dated 1 October. The map on it appears to show that the new proposal is that the whole of the Rudloe estate moves to Box (some of it is now in Corsham) whilst all the surrounding area goes to Corsham. Some residents were totally unaware of any proposed changes, and are only now being included in any communication because they may have a change of local authority. Although dated 1 October, some residents did not receive it until today. I have seen a copy of it and it appears to have been done in a hurry - the legend to the map is handwritten, not typed.
The result would be a Box "island" surrounded by Corsham. No reasons were given. A recipe for mis-understanding between the two authorities if it goes ahead.
There has been a development today (10 October 2015) which has left some parishioners feeling totally bemused, uncomprehending, let down and wondering what the thought process is.
The Rudloe Scene website has a copy of the latest communication from Corsham Town Council dated 1 October. The map on it appears to show that the new proposal is that the whole of the Rudloe estate moves to Box (some of it is now in Corsham) whilst all the surrounding area goes to Corsham. Some residents were totally unaware of any proposed changes, and are only now being included in any communication because they may have a change of local authority. Although dated 1 October, some residents did not receive it until today. I have seen a copy of it and it appears to have been done in a hurry - the legend to the map is handwritten, not typed.
The result would be a Box "island" surrounded by Corsham. No reasons were given. A recipe for mis-understanding between the two authorities if it goes ahead.
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Alan Payne wrote about
Corsham's Alternative Proposal Issued 1 October 2015 The proposals appear to have been altered with an alternative suggestion from Corsham Town. This proposes that existing houses in Chapel Plaister and Wadswick now remain in Box. The area of Springfield Close through to Pine Close are still proposed to go to Corsham and an areas marked blue on the map should go from Corsham to Box. I spent two hours walking around on Sunday and speaking to residents but, sorry, I still couldn't really be certain. |
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I think the blue area to be transferred from Corsham to Box is in a wedge between the A4 and the B3109 taking in Leylands Road, South Croft, Westwood Road, Broadwood Avenue, possibly down as far as Rudloe Stores and the 2002 Community Centre.
But I can't be sure because of the poor quality of the map attached.
But I can't be sure because of the poor quality of the map attached.
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It is very concerning that the alternative proposal has been issued only days before the public meeting and still doesn't identify fully what areas are involved: road names would have been a great help. Please come to the meeting if you care about the future of our area. We need to know what the proposals really mean, which houses are involved and the knock-on effect to all of us.
Here are extracts of the revised proposal. Below is a full copy of the revised plan (courtesy of Paul Turner of Rudloe Scene, who gives his views further below).
Here are extracts of the revised proposal. Below is a full copy of the revised plan (courtesy of Paul Turner of Rudloe Scene, who gives his views further below).
Corsham Town Council Revised Proposal 2
| corsham_town_council_parish_boundary_proposals.pdf |
Paul Turner Rudloescene Wrote
As we allowed Rudloe resident Tudor Jones to have the first word, it seems only right to let another resident have the last, so it's over to you, Paul Turner, Rudloe resident and enthusiastic compiler of the fascinating wealth of articles all about the area at the Rudloescene website.
The change in Corsham’s plan is illuminating. Initially, the proposal was to follow fixed features which are likely to remain in place for many years – these were the Cotswold Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB), Leafy Lane, the B3109 and the A365. Whether or not one agreed with the concept, this appeared to make topographical sense. However, the change in plan while ‘pulling back’ the proposed annexation also reveals underlying motives.
In the new plan, instead of following the B3109 and A365, the proposed boundary now follows the new access road to Wadswick Green (for part of its length) and the eastern boundary of Kingsmoor Wood, thus putting part of Manor Farm’s land and holdings in Corsham Parish with the rest remaining in Box. This arbitrary divide would mean that all the Strategic Housing Land Availability Sites would become part of Corsham Parish with the relatively ‘unprofitable’ major part of Manor Farm (farms pay no rates) and the hamlets of Chapel Plaister and Wadswick remaining in Box.
The hundreds of existing homes and many businesses in Rudloe and Hawthorn and the planned and proposed new homes (Hannick’s 88 homes, Frampton’s 180 homes) and businesses (Bath ASU’s existing and planned expansion at Corsham (!not really Corsham but Hawthorn) Science Park and Ark Data’s expansion at Hawthorn) would, unsurprisingly, be annexed by Corsham.
Through this change, one gets an insight into the real reason for Corsham’s proposal - income, power and status - to the detriment of its smaller neighbour.
Any road up (as they say up north) I have just been watching Ian Nairn’s 1970s comparison between neighbours Halifax and Huddersfield in the form of an architectural football match. Surprisingly, Halifax won the contest 5-2. I wondered how Corsham and Box would compare, not architecturally but simply as communities, so let’s have a go ...
Both places have many clubs and activities for their communities. Rudloe did have a thriving community centre until the turn of the century but interference from outside agencies (the County Council and the local housing association principally) has seen an unnecessary replacement building constructed (completed in 2000) at a cost not far short of £1 million. And just a few years after completion, it was described, by Wiltshire Council itself, as “not fit for purpose”. This community centre, within Corsham Parish, has been a financial, planning and community disaster. Would or should Corsham Town Council take any responsibility for this debacle? I’m not aware of any such disasters in Box (at least not on such a scale).
1-0 to Box
Clearly Corsham, being the far larger community and also a town rather than a village, has more shopping, dining and watering (cafes, pubs) facilities than Box. But while Corsham Town Council, in its plan, states “Corsham has grown by over 20 per cent in the last ten years and the settlement is due to expand much further in the next decade. The Town Council is positive about managing development ...”, what has it done to arrest the decline of its heart, the town centre itself? National businesses such as Nationwide, NatWest and HSBC have all withdrawn from Corsham, the last just days ago (October 2015), indicating that they see no future for the town. Similarly, local businesses have gone: Higos Insurance Brokers have closed their Corsham office concentrating their business in Calne and Devizes; the best restaurant in the Town, Cinnamon and Madison ladies fashion have closed recently; the small Martingate Precinct has two empty premises and two charity shops indicating a town in decline and the Wiltshire College Corsham Enterprise Centre, also in the Precinct, closed its doors in 2014.
With regard to the last, I wrote to the college, the local MP and Corsham Town Council asking how such a fine facility with purpose-built classrooms including a well-equipped computer lab could be lost to the community. While the college and MP responded, the Town Council did not, indicating a lack of interest in Corsham’s facilities and future.
It is all very well trumpeting the outward expansion of the Corsham settlement but without a vibrant town centre, Corsham will be just a large, satellite conurbation with residents of existing and new developments creating more pressure on our roads by using the much better facilities of Melksham, Chippenham, Bath and Trowbridge.
2-0 to Box
We have just returned from a tour of the north of England and the Scottish Borders and were surprised to find that parking was free everywhere – car parks and streets. There were no parking meters and no parking attendants in any of the towns we visited (except one posh, touristy town in North Yorkshire). Some years ago, I parked in Newlands Road Car Park in Corsham (where charges apply) but didn’t have any change. While I was away trying to get some (change) I met an old friend I hadn’t seen for perhaps thirty years. Now here’s a question for anyone who happened to chance on this article ... What should one do in such circumstances? Engage in conversation about the intervening years, what has happened in our lives, our families etc or say “Sorry mate, I know we haven’t met for thirty years but I must go and find some change for the parking meter”. We should not succumb to having our lives dictated by bureaucratic, mercenary, exploitative schemes. If ‘we’ want to encourage the use of our town and village centres we shouldn’t have restrictive parking schemes. Both Corsham and Box (as far as I know) have restrictive parking so it remains ...
2-0 to Box
Having experienced the goings-on of the Corsham and Box councils (particularly the planning committees) I can say, without fear of contradiction (you’re welcome), that they are both equally useless. Just two recent examples: the Corsham Strategic Plan states that there should be no development between Corsham and outlying settlements such as Rudloe. Yet the Corsham Planning Committee supported the application for a new mine entrance on the Bradford Road without mentioning the supposed ‘Strategic Plan’ (this was the very body that created it!). Box Planning Committee supported a half-baked planning application that would have seen the 15-mile view from Wadswick Lane across to Salisbury Plain and Pewsey Vale obliterated. And both Corsham and Box committees supported the Hannick greenfield application at Rudloe when there are more than enough local brownfield sites to satisfy housing targets. Both useless so it remains ...
2-0 to Box at the final whistle (as I reckon two pages are enough!)
As we allowed Rudloe resident Tudor Jones to have the first word, it seems only right to let another resident have the last, so it's over to you, Paul Turner, Rudloe resident and enthusiastic compiler of the fascinating wealth of articles all about the area at the Rudloescene website.
The change in Corsham’s plan is illuminating. Initially, the proposal was to follow fixed features which are likely to remain in place for many years – these were the Cotswold Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB), Leafy Lane, the B3109 and the A365. Whether or not one agreed with the concept, this appeared to make topographical sense. However, the change in plan while ‘pulling back’ the proposed annexation also reveals underlying motives.
In the new plan, instead of following the B3109 and A365, the proposed boundary now follows the new access road to Wadswick Green (for part of its length) and the eastern boundary of Kingsmoor Wood, thus putting part of Manor Farm’s land and holdings in Corsham Parish with the rest remaining in Box. This arbitrary divide would mean that all the Strategic Housing Land Availability Sites would become part of Corsham Parish with the relatively ‘unprofitable’ major part of Manor Farm (farms pay no rates) and the hamlets of Chapel Plaister and Wadswick remaining in Box.
The hundreds of existing homes and many businesses in Rudloe and Hawthorn and the planned and proposed new homes (Hannick’s 88 homes, Frampton’s 180 homes) and businesses (Bath ASU’s existing and planned expansion at Corsham (!not really Corsham but Hawthorn) Science Park and Ark Data’s expansion at Hawthorn) would, unsurprisingly, be annexed by Corsham.
Through this change, one gets an insight into the real reason for Corsham’s proposal - income, power and status - to the detriment of its smaller neighbour.
Any road up (as they say up north) I have just been watching Ian Nairn’s 1970s comparison between neighbours Halifax and Huddersfield in the form of an architectural football match. Surprisingly, Halifax won the contest 5-2. I wondered how Corsham and Box would compare, not architecturally but simply as communities, so let’s have a go ...
Both places have many clubs and activities for their communities. Rudloe did have a thriving community centre until the turn of the century but interference from outside agencies (the County Council and the local housing association principally) has seen an unnecessary replacement building constructed (completed in 2000) at a cost not far short of £1 million. And just a few years after completion, it was described, by Wiltshire Council itself, as “not fit for purpose”. This community centre, within Corsham Parish, has been a financial, planning and community disaster. Would or should Corsham Town Council take any responsibility for this debacle? I’m not aware of any such disasters in Box (at least not on such a scale).
1-0 to Box
Clearly Corsham, being the far larger community and also a town rather than a village, has more shopping, dining and watering (cafes, pubs) facilities than Box. But while Corsham Town Council, in its plan, states “Corsham has grown by over 20 per cent in the last ten years and the settlement is due to expand much further in the next decade. The Town Council is positive about managing development ...”, what has it done to arrest the decline of its heart, the town centre itself? National businesses such as Nationwide, NatWest and HSBC have all withdrawn from Corsham, the last just days ago (October 2015), indicating that they see no future for the town. Similarly, local businesses have gone: Higos Insurance Brokers have closed their Corsham office concentrating their business in Calne and Devizes; the best restaurant in the Town, Cinnamon and Madison ladies fashion have closed recently; the small Martingate Precinct has two empty premises and two charity shops indicating a town in decline and the Wiltshire College Corsham Enterprise Centre, also in the Precinct, closed its doors in 2014.
With regard to the last, I wrote to the college, the local MP and Corsham Town Council asking how such a fine facility with purpose-built classrooms including a well-equipped computer lab could be lost to the community. While the college and MP responded, the Town Council did not, indicating a lack of interest in Corsham’s facilities and future.
It is all very well trumpeting the outward expansion of the Corsham settlement but without a vibrant town centre, Corsham will be just a large, satellite conurbation with residents of existing and new developments creating more pressure on our roads by using the much better facilities of Melksham, Chippenham, Bath and Trowbridge.
2-0 to Box
We have just returned from a tour of the north of England and the Scottish Borders and were surprised to find that parking was free everywhere – car parks and streets. There were no parking meters and no parking attendants in any of the towns we visited (except one posh, touristy town in North Yorkshire). Some years ago, I parked in Newlands Road Car Park in Corsham (where charges apply) but didn’t have any change. While I was away trying to get some (change) I met an old friend I hadn’t seen for perhaps thirty years. Now here’s a question for anyone who happened to chance on this article ... What should one do in such circumstances? Engage in conversation about the intervening years, what has happened in our lives, our families etc or say “Sorry mate, I know we haven’t met for thirty years but I must go and find some change for the parking meter”. We should not succumb to having our lives dictated by bureaucratic, mercenary, exploitative schemes. If ‘we’ want to encourage the use of our town and village centres we shouldn’t have restrictive parking schemes. Both Corsham and Box (as far as I know) have restrictive parking so it remains ...
2-0 to Box
Having experienced the goings-on of the Corsham and Box councils (particularly the planning committees) I can say, without fear of contradiction (you’re welcome), that they are both equally useless. Just two recent examples: the Corsham Strategic Plan states that there should be no development between Corsham and outlying settlements such as Rudloe. Yet the Corsham Planning Committee supported the application for a new mine entrance on the Bradford Road without mentioning the supposed ‘Strategic Plan’ (this was the very body that created it!). Box Planning Committee supported a half-baked planning application that would have seen the 15-mile view from Wadswick Lane across to Salisbury Plain and Pewsey Vale obliterated. And both Corsham and Box committees supported the Hannick greenfield application at Rudloe when there are more than enough local brownfield sites to satisfy housing targets. Both useless so it remains ...
2-0 to Box at the final whistle (as I reckon two pages are enough!)
John Currant wrote
Hopefully I am not too late but as my family have lived and worked in Box village for over a 100 years I am apalled by the actions of Corsham Council with so little consultation. Now we have a last minute change of proposal with no time to respond before the meeting on the 14th.
I left Box in 1961 and it was always my intention - God willing - to return upon retirement. This I managed 4 years ago and I have always called Box home even whilst living in London and Hertfordshire.
I feel this is the sense of identity being referred to and am proud of my history within the village. My father worked on the railway and was the steward of the Comrades Legion Club for many years.
I could go on but feel enough said.
Hopefully the STATUS QUO remains.
Hopefully I am not too late but as my family have lived and worked in Box village for over a 100 years I am apalled by the actions of Corsham Council with so little consultation. Now we have a last minute change of proposal with no time to respond before the meeting on the 14th.
I left Box in 1961 and it was always my intention - God willing - to return upon retirement. This I managed 4 years ago and I have always called Box home even whilst living in London and Hertfordshire.
I feel this is the sense of identity being referred to and am proud of my history within the village. My father worked on the railway and was the steward of the Comrades Legion Club for many years.
I could go on but feel enough said.
Hopefully the STATUS QUO remains.
Robin Parry wrote
I wish to express my concern at the changes to Box Parish boundary proposed by Corsham Council.
There has been no population shift in the 16 years I’ve lived in the Parish to warrant a change to the already easily defined boundary bordering currently developed land.
Box parish precept provides for the maintenance of approximately £2M of parish assets; The Council Offices, the Cemetery, The Pavilion the Blind House, The Pound, the War Memorial, Box Hill Common Lacy Wood and the Recreation Ground. The latter includes a bowling green, tennis courts, netball court, mountain bike course, play areas for under 5s and 6-12s, football ground, cricket ground plus support for the Pavilion used by youth groups and some of the many organisations in this active and vibrant community. It also provides for street cleaning and maintenance of verges and floral displays leading to Box regularly being among the top entrants for the Best Kept Village awards.
The proposals, if implemented, would result in some 450 homes out of a total of approximately 1500 being transferred out of Box Parish and with them the associated revenue. This may bring into question ability of Box Parish to continue to provide such services to its residents and indeed the viability of the Parish.
The foregoing was my response to the proposal in August 2014 ; the numbers may have changed marginally but the sentiments remain. Now, a year later, may I ask why the meeting which so obviously affects the parishioners of Box is not being held in Box Parish?
I wish to express my concern at the changes to Box Parish boundary proposed by Corsham Council.
There has been no population shift in the 16 years I’ve lived in the Parish to warrant a change to the already easily defined boundary bordering currently developed land.
Box parish precept provides for the maintenance of approximately £2M of parish assets; The Council Offices, the Cemetery, The Pavilion the Blind House, The Pound, the War Memorial, Box Hill Common Lacy Wood and the Recreation Ground. The latter includes a bowling green, tennis courts, netball court, mountain bike course, play areas for under 5s and 6-12s, football ground, cricket ground plus support for the Pavilion used by youth groups and some of the many organisations in this active and vibrant community. It also provides for street cleaning and maintenance of verges and floral displays leading to Box regularly being among the top entrants for the Best Kept Village awards.
The proposals, if implemented, would result in some 450 homes out of a total of approximately 1500 being transferred out of Box Parish and with them the associated revenue. This may bring into question ability of Box Parish to continue to provide such services to its residents and indeed the viability of the Parish.
The foregoing was my response to the proposal in August 2014 ; the numbers may have changed marginally but the sentiments remain. Now, a year later, may I ask why the meeting which so obviously affects the parishioners of Box is not being held in Box Parish?
Report on Public Meeting 14 October 2015 at Springfield Centre, Corsham
Alan Payne wrote: Overwhelming Public Support for
Rudloe to Remain in Box at Boundary Meeting
Alan Payne wrote: Overwhelming Public Support for
Rudloe to Remain in Box at Boundary Meeting
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One hundred and eighty members of the public packed the Springfield Centre, Corsham, on 14 October to attend a meeting called by Wiltshire Council's Working Group under the county's Community Governance Review.
The consultation meeting was called to hear a summary of proposals to alter Box and Corsham's boundaries and to give the pubic an opportunity to give their views. The overwhelming support was for no change, expressed by about 150 people wearing " I LIVE IN BOX !" stickers. Right: Box villagers packed into Corsham Springfield Centre to express their views (courtesy Carol Payne) |
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There were three proposals on the table: a third version of Corsham Town's plan to transfer 445 properties in Rudloe from Box to Corsham together with considerable development land (below left); a proposal from Box Parish Council to unify Rudloe by transferring 236 Rudloe houses currently in Corsham to Box (below right); and a proposal concerning boundaries between Chippenham and Corsham (not shown as not relevant to Box). Maps courtesy Wiltshire Council.
Twenty-three people voiced their views. Twenty people were implacably opposed to Corsham's proposal (about half identified themselves as Rudloe residents and the rest were from other areas of Box); two people wanted more details; and only one person, Corsham Town's vice chairman Peter Pearson, was in favour of Corsham's proposal. Every one of the objectors was greeted with considerable applause and the sole Corsham supporter with cries of disbelief.
Twenty-three people voiced their views. Twenty people were implacably opposed to Corsham's proposal (about half identified themselves as Rudloe residents and the rest were from other areas of Box); two people wanted more details; and only one person, Corsham Town's vice chairman Peter Pearson, was in favour of Corsham's proposal. Every one of the objectors was greeted with considerable applause and the sole Corsham supporter with cries of disbelief.
Corsham Town Council proposal of transfers out of Box
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Box Parish Council's proposal to unify Rudloe
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Many speakers were surprised and deeply disappointed about Corsham's proposal which destroyed community identity. Several people referred to Corsham's plan as a "land grab". We were told that Corsham's proposal would result in Box losing one-third of its residents, devastating its ability to provide local services. Many were concerned that the proposal would result in higher rates for all residents but we were told that this could not be considered under the Governance Review.
Of special concern was the pressure on specific residents of Rudloe. Vicar Janet addressed the meeting to outline the work that
St Thomas à Becket Church was undertaking in all areas of Rudloe including private residences, social and military housing areas.
The meeting isn't the end of this matter. The Working Party reports to a full meeting of Wiltshire Council who will make the decision about the proposals. The Working Party will still accept people's views and thought that the deadline for submission would be towards the end of October (see Box Parish Website for confirmation).
There are maps and further thoughts about this on the Box Parish Council website and Box People and Places website. It's not too late to give your views either to John Whatling at [email protected] or you can contact him directly via Box Community History website at www.boxpeopleandplaces.co.uk.The Council promotes its care as Where Everybody Matters so give them your views.
Of special concern was the pressure on specific residents of Rudloe. Vicar Janet addressed the meeting to outline the work that
St Thomas à Becket Church was undertaking in all areas of Rudloe including private residences, social and military housing areas.
The meeting isn't the end of this matter. The Working Party reports to a full meeting of Wiltshire Council who will make the decision about the proposals. The Working Party will still accept people's views and thought that the deadline for submission would be towards the end of October (see Box Parish Website for confirmation).
There are maps and further thoughts about this on the Box Parish Council website and Box People and Places website. It's not too late to give your views either to John Whatling at [email protected] or you can contact him directly via Box Community History website at www.boxpeopleandplaces.co.uk.The Council promotes its care as Where Everybody Matters so give them your views.
Tudor Jones wrote After the Meeting
I arrived at the meeting at 8pm after a personal meeting which I was obliged to attend. My missive is 'emotional' and I opined that delivery at the meeting would have been counter-productive.
'Emotion' is of course widespread with this grab-and-take-over plan; there should have been a Box Parish referendum from the outset; of course the outcome is obvious hence no reference to the parishioners. A simple YES/NO speaks volumes by those who cannot see the logic of this land-grabbing plan and DO NOT want it; readily to mind comes the feeling (indeed the fact?) of 'to hell with the people therein, they matter not.'
With Voltaire in mind, our selfish land-grabbing and pathetic 'leaders' seemed to imply "I disagree with everything you say but defend to the death your right to say it!" Democracy? The meeting, in my opinion, was "shrouded democracy"; let the 'peasants have their say seemed so Victorian and currently Communistic.
I arrived at the meeting at 8pm after a personal meeting which I was obliged to attend. My missive is 'emotional' and I opined that delivery at the meeting would have been counter-productive.
'Emotion' is of course widespread with this grab-and-take-over plan; there should have been a Box Parish referendum from the outset; of course the outcome is obvious hence no reference to the parishioners. A simple YES/NO speaks volumes by those who cannot see the logic of this land-grabbing plan and DO NOT want it; readily to mind comes the feeling (indeed the fact?) of 'to hell with the people therein, they matter not.'
With Voltaire in mind, our selfish land-grabbing and pathetic 'leaders' seemed to imply "I disagree with everything you say but defend to the death your right to say it!" Democracy? The meeting, in my opinion, was "shrouded democracy"; let the 'peasants have their say seemed so Victorian and currently Communistic.
Paul Turner of rudloescene wrote After the Meeting
14th October 2015 - Community Governance Review meeting at Corsham Community Campus
This meeting of the Working Group on Parish & Community Governance Reviews was arranged in order to take views on the proposals for the Corsham and Box parishes. The meeting agenda, which includes 'frequently asked questions' and a three-page survey can be found in the pdf file at the foot of this article (note that there is no 'Page 2' which was blank).
Probably a couple of hundred people attended the meeting, principally Box and Rudloe residents, and many good points were made for keeping the status quo. The impression was that if any proposal were to be accepted, it would be the 'counter' proposal from Box Parish Council (agenda item 3b) for the part of Rudloe Estate which is presently in Corsham Parish to be moved to Box Parish.
14th October 2015 - Community Governance Review meeting at Corsham Community Campus
This meeting of the Working Group on Parish & Community Governance Reviews was arranged in order to take views on the proposals for the Corsham and Box parishes. The meeting agenda, which includes 'frequently asked questions' and a three-page survey can be found in the pdf file at the foot of this article (note that there is no 'Page 2' which was blank).
Probably a couple of hundred people attended the meeting, principally Box and Rudloe residents, and many good points were made for keeping the status quo. The impression was that if any proposal were to be accepted, it would be the 'counter' proposal from Box Parish Council (agenda item 3b) for the part of Rudloe Estate which is presently in Corsham Parish to be moved to Box Parish.
To the shame of both councils (Corsham and Box) support was given for proposed speculative development on this pastureland at Rudloe when there are more than enough brownfield sites to satisfy housing demand. Photo courtesy Paul Turner.
As the photo indicates, when it comes to throwing Rudloe to the development wolves both parish councils are happy to do so without any thought for the problems that existing householders have. There are no services at Rudloe - the only shop, on Rudloe Estate, closes this month. Do the councils not appreciate that a substantial amount of money is foregone on bus or taxi fares in order simply to get to shops? Parts of Rudloe have been described by Wiltshire Council as "deprived". So where better to put another 88 homes than in a deprived area without services?
Corsham Town Council (CTC) Planning Committee voted "unanimously" to support the 88-home development at Rudloe and, interestingly, voted unanimously against the 150-home proposal at Pickwick. This, I believe, indicates CTC's true view of Rudloe - that they care little for the community. At tonight's meeting, the only arguments we heard from CTC were about "new" residents (of new developments) and what community they would wish to be part of (we heard nothing about how they support or propose to support existing residents) and the boundary anomalies (however, CTC's proposal would simply replace one set of anomalies with another - see next para). The author of the Corsham proposal, the former Town Clerk, now CEO, was conspicuous in his silence.
So, no good rationale was offered by CTC for their proposal. Even their proposed boundary which was to be based "on fixed features which are likely to remain in place for many years" has been arbitrarily modified to follow a new access road to Wadswick Green which divides Manor Farm's holdings (so part of Manor Farm would be in Box, another part in Corsham).The poor showing from CTC indicates that there really is no solid foundation to their plan.
Returning to sporting analogies, as made in my piece in the 7th October article, if this was a boxing match, Box won by a KO in round 1 or if a tennis match, by a WO (walkover).
With regard to the meeting agenda below, the included survey is a bit of a minefield as, for example, question 7 says "How far do you agree or disagree thet the proposed changes to the parish boundaries where you live will improve the following factors". But what proposed changes? Those proposed by Corsham or those proposed by Box? The only solution is not to insert any ticks in boxes but to provide a narrative answer. Surveys should be returned either to the email or postal address given on 'Page 8' of the survey by 30th October.
Corsham Town Council (CTC) Planning Committee voted "unanimously" to support the 88-home development at Rudloe and, interestingly, voted unanimously against the 150-home proposal at Pickwick. This, I believe, indicates CTC's true view of Rudloe - that they care little for the community. At tonight's meeting, the only arguments we heard from CTC were about "new" residents (of new developments) and what community they would wish to be part of (we heard nothing about how they support or propose to support existing residents) and the boundary anomalies (however, CTC's proposal would simply replace one set of anomalies with another - see next para). The author of the Corsham proposal, the former Town Clerk, now CEO, was conspicuous in his silence.
So, no good rationale was offered by CTC for their proposal. Even their proposed boundary which was to be based "on fixed features which are likely to remain in place for many years" has been arbitrarily modified to follow a new access road to Wadswick Green which divides Manor Farm's holdings (so part of Manor Farm would be in Box, another part in Corsham).The poor showing from CTC indicates that there really is no solid foundation to their plan.
Returning to sporting analogies, as made in my piece in the 7th October article, if this was a boxing match, Box won by a KO in round 1 or if a tennis match, by a WO (walkover).
With regard to the meeting agenda below, the included survey is a bit of a minefield as, for example, question 7 says "How far do you agree or disagree thet the proposed changes to the parish boundaries where you live will improve the following factors". But what proposed changes? Those proposed by Corsham or those proposed by Box? The only solution is not to insert any ticks in boxes but to provide a narrative answer. Surveys should be returned either to the email or postal address given on 'Page 8' of the survey by 30th October.
| wiltshire_council_community_governance_review_-_14_october_meeting_agenda.pdf |
There's a lot more about this subject on Paul's local website at www.rudloescene.co.uk which covers a much broader area than Rudloe alone. It's worth a look with much of interest to residents.
Act Quickly - There is Still Time
Please give your views urgently to Wiltshire Council Governance Review Working Party if you care about these matters.
The Council promotes its care as Where Everybody Matters so tell them your views. You can
Please give your views urgently to Wiltshire Council Governance Review Working Party if you care about these matters.
The Council promotes its care as Where Everybody Matters so tell them your views. You can
- Send an email to John Whatling at [email protected]
- Complete Wiltshire Council's survey at http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/communitygovernancereviewsurvey2015.htm
- Send us your views ([email protected]) so that we may pass on your comments.